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LOL! Just found this conversation and loved it! Hee! Well, apart from the bit about chaining me to a laptop – THWAP!
But yes! Jacci IS a goddess – I’ve told her so but she won’t accept it *g*.
I am so delighted she managed to kindle some fics for you – and it’s great if we can make them available to people generally. Squee!!!LOL! Well some kinky part of me WOULD like to keep all my readers chained up reading only MY fics to the end of time *g* so I’m actually secretly chuffed you said this! LOL!
I love that you love that story so much, Jacs. I think fandom took a collective shocked intake of breath when I posted it, and it was too dark for some people – much like The Adversary. But a few other people refer to it as my ‘masterpiece’ and I’m really proud of it
ROFL re Three Masters! I don’t think you’re going to let me forget that one *g*. Maybe S2 of Suits will inspire me! I LOVE how you felt you knew the Suits boys because you’d read Possession before seeing the show
Thank you for mentioning Daddy – I was worried about how shocking that one might be in the fandom, but I couldn’t stop myself writing it all the same *g*.
And Ducky in HiPS! I had no idea I was going to do that pairing and then suddenly I started writing it, stopped, stared at the screen, and literally squeed out loud! LOL! I had to email Bluespirit to tell her about it as it was SO perfect and SO unexpected .Meant to say also, that if you just prefer reading dom!Sherlock and sub!John then I don’t see it’s an issue – this is all make believe in our heads! LOL! I never want to read it that way around because it feels wrong to me, but other people might not want to read it my way around because it feels wrong to them. It’s all just what we like/fancy/enjoy most. I don’t know there’s a right or wrong to it – I can only say how it is for me
.LOL! I don’t think it’s a big deal if people see it differently – sometimes we just want different things from fics/pairings.
For me, this one is a no brainer – sometimes I have to think about it more but instinctively this is what feels right to me with this pairing.
I do see Holmes as the sub pretty much in everything I’ve seen with him in it – the movies for example – Jude Law’s Watson is SO the sensible one bringing RDJ’s insane but genius Holmes down to earth. (I don’t like those movies much though).
With Sherlock, it’s John’s grounding compared to Sherlock’s semi-autism. It’s in Sherlock pacing around between cases wanting to smoke and John being the one who tells him ‘no’ and Sherlock accepting that. It’s John telling Sherlock to accept gifts graciously, and apologise when he’s been rude etc etc. It’s the fact that while Sherlock is undeniably in charge out in the field on a case, it’s John who is more in charge in their domestic/personal lives because he has emotional intelligence and Sherlock is far more cerebral.
I also don’t see what the point is of topping John in a way – I don’t think subbing is about letting go of sadness and being alone although one could write a story that brought out those elements. Sherlock needs a break from the big brain for sure, and John is a very grounded person who can give him time out. Sherlock also needs someone to defer to because John is the ONLY person he does defer to. Sherlock might know a great deal but in the emotional arena he almost knows NOTHING – he requires a guide to normal, human, everyday experiences and emotions and John is that for him.I think one also needs to see Sherlock’s vulnerabilities and John’s strengths as well. Sherlock had a bad time at school and is as alone as John – more so in many ways because nobody LIKES him. Lots of people like John, even if he’s cautious about letting them in. Sherlock’s lack of friendships do bother him – you see he was laughed at at school – in the Blind Banker, he introduces John as his ‘friend’. John, not wanting people to think they’re a gay couple, amends that to ‘colleague’ – and Sherlock’s reaction is quite sad and upset about that – it’s all minute nuances.
I also think Sherlock really needs bringing down. John doesn’t – he’s already very grounded. What would subbing do for him? He doesn’t need escape, or to fly, or to be brought down, or to stop from self destructing. He doesn’t look to me like someone who would enjoy pain, or bondage, or power play, or giving up control in order to get release. If we just want to take care of him then I don’t think it needs a BDSM relationship for that – it’d work better in a normal slash relationship. I don’t see him as someone who does need taking care of though – I think his thing is that he wants to take care of others – he’s a doctor after all, and part of what he does for Sherlock is care taking – making sure there’s food in the fridge, looking out for him, worrying about him, killing people who are a threat to him – etc etc.
Of course, this is all pie in the sky in many ways – a person can be entirely different sexually to how they come over in their real life! LOL! So I don’t think it’s something we should get unduly hung up on. I just think Sherlock comes into that category where fandom mistakes his bossiness and cleverness for dom-like qualities whereas in many ways I think they’re the antithesis. it’s surface domliness – about being smart, apparently self assured and ordering people around. Rodney suffered a lot from that too and he was utterly a sub in my view – although John Sheppard was less of an obvious dom to my mind. Gibbs and Tony are easily the least confusing dom/sub couple out there! LOL! Gibbs IS bossy in the field and has rank and age on his side, but he’s also very grounded. He also likes to take his toppiness everywhere – not just in the workplace – it’s in every aspect of his life. And of course we see Tony loving that and responding to it in a very submissive manner – but only with Gibbs. Tony’s subbiness is very specific to one person whereas Gibbs’s toppiness is all pervading
. But Sherlock is naughty – he pisses people off, sometimes deliberately, to the point where he gets sent to prison briefly for it despite John telling him NOT TO DO IT. John gets to comment on and correct Sherlock’s behaviour – Sherlock never does that with John. John is there to reel Sherlock in and try to stop him from his own worst impulses. He humanises Sherlock. Even without the BDSM, that’s a point that was brought out by the show’s writers very early on. That Sherlock without John has the potential to go bad – he acts out of hubris and he acts out of his belief in his own mental capacity without thinking about any emotional consequences. That’s what John is there for – to temper that. In that way I don’t see them as much different from Walter and Fox – Fox is brilliant but wayward – Walter is stabilising. I think people are maybe confused by the fact that John is the junior partner, ostensibly, in their working relationship. I also think some folks just love Sherlock and want to imagine him being the stern fantasy dom of their dreams. Nothing wrong with any of that – if that’s how people want it. It really doesn’t work for me that way but all of this is fantasy anyway.
It’s a difficult one because I don’t think they need to be read in any order. If one wants the order they were written then it’s:
General and Dr Sheppard
Coming Home
Hiding in Plain Sight
The First Collar
I think G&DS introduces the idea of the universe (it’s the only one not set in the BDSM verse) – and then you can go to Coming Home to read the back story of John and Rodney in BDSM universe. With the NCIS stories I think it works either way but reading The First Collar and then going into Hiding in Plain Sight perhaps makes more sense.Yes – totally! And thanks!
It’d be interesting to see if anyone could say what they thought their best experience was in terms of how they read them. If they read them one way and thought they’d have preferred to have read them in a different order, or if it was just right the way it was!I’m a bit the other way, Georgie. I can’t read anything with Sherlock as the dom. It feels totally wrong to me. I can only see John as the dom in that relationship. I guess we all just have a personal take on the dynamic.
I think people can read it/enjoy it any way they like but for me, I feel very strongly, in a gut instinct way, that John is the top in the bedroom and in a BDSM relationship. And frankly he’s what Sherlock NEEDS to bring him back down after/between cases. The vibe was very clearly expressed when Sherlock was sulking about the cigarettes and John made it very clear he wouldn’t be getting any. And there’s the way John makes him accept gifts graciously and apologise for his manners. John is the one with the emotional intelligence and the right degree of firmness to use it on Sherlock in a BDSM setting – Sherlock calls the shots on a case and John calls the shots in their personal relationship. They work best that way in my view. I honestly cannot see John as a sub at all. And I wouldn’t trust Sherlock to be a good top.
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